May 19, 2005
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I really miss Lizabeth’s blog (Shepherd’sGlen) (EDITED ON DEC 30 , 05 – Lizabeth has a new blog now she is CrazyMamaofMany) . Before she left her last post really made me think. Until recently I had never heard of AP and was very unaware of the two camps of Christian parenting. The points that really made me think are in red. It was very interesting to read this and helpful to me as an Orthodox Christian. I have dear friends in both parenting camps. I thought I would share, with Lizabeth’s permission, her thoughts in her last couple of posts before she deleted her blog. Lizabeth I will miss your presence. Her blog is gone but Lizabeth and her family run a great Orthodox Christian Homeschooling Bookstore called Paidea Classics.
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(these are Lizabeth’s words, not mine)
Forgive me, a personal rant…
I have come to the point where I realize I must be totally honest, which has forced me to end my participation at gracefulmothering.com/community and my membership to the AP blog rings which before today, I had belonged to.
I have always believed in AP parenting in early childhood. But I have had a variety of influences when it comes to disciplining older children. My husband and I are presently re-evaluating all of our parenting philosophy in the light of what we are learning in Orthodoxy. We have no absolutely definitive views, though we do hold gentle discipline as the ideal to strive for.
But this I do know: We will never dogmatize any type of parenting style or discipline. These are secondary issues in the Christian life. I feel very uncomfortable whenever anyone raises this type of thing, whether it is the practice of using corporal punishment for the purpose of child-training, or the use of non-punitive methods only, up to the level of fundamental Christian beliefs. I feel very uncomfortable whenever diversity of opinion on such topics as these are completely banned or people are excluded because of differing view points.
There is no one dogmatic opinion within Orthodoxy. St. John Chrysostom speaks on all the Scriptures of the New Testament and he makes it quite clear that there is a time and place for firmer parenting measures, for the sake of saving a child’s soul. But he, as well as many Orthodox saints, do not encourage on the reliance of physical discipline for the sake of training someone up for Christ. It is Orthodox teaching and understanding that it requires grace for someone to learn to love Christ, and not harsh punishment. It is grace that trains someone up for Christ. Our job as parents, is to attract grace into our home, so that it will lead and sanctify us together as a family.
So it is my understanding that within Orthodoxy, physical discipline, though not encouraged as a primary way of disciplining children, maybe necessary and acceptable for the sake of maintaining certain boundaries. The Church exercises such discipline in the form of excommunication, or in the case of a wayward priest or hierarch, and/or the removal of all priestly duties and functions. The apostles themselves, emphasized the necessity of separating from the Church, those who continue to follow heretical teachings and/or continue gross immoral behaviour without repentance.
The Scriptures tell us that we must accept God’s chastening to be children of God, that it isn’t pleasant while it occurs, but painful, yet it brings the peaceable fruit of righteousness (Hebrews 12). It is Church teaching that suffering is necessary for us to learn humility and to be remade in the likeness of Christ (which we lost in the Fall, though we still retain His Image). Christ through His own suffering, redeemed suffering, so rather than to be fearful of it, we can accept it, pick up our cross, and follow Him with patience and hope in the Resurrection.
I do not believe in the practice followed by many Protestants of corporal punishment for the sake of training a child to Christ. I do believe that a parent may at times have a need to use firmer measures, which may include physical discipline, in order to protect the child from destructive behavior, to him or herself, and/or to others. Whether it is appropriate for a parent to use such measures or not, is not for me to judge, but is best left between the person/family in question and whoever is spiritually responsible for that particular family.
Forgive me if I have caused anyone scandal or have come across as dishonest. I wish I could have been more upfront about this, but felt like it would have been grossly rejected on the gracefulmother.com forum.
An excerpt from “Conversations with Children,” by Sister Magdelen of the Stavropegic Monastery of St. John the Baptist, Essex, United Kingdom.
THE HEART, THE SPIRITUAL CENTRE OF A PERSON
‘Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all they mind’ (Luke 10:27). Christ put the heart first in His Commandment. The heart is the most personal component of a human being. Our brains and our minds reflect in their way the state of our heart; as the Lord said, thoughts proceed out of the heart (Matt. 15:19, Mark 7:21). ‘Our ideas, our philosophical systems, our cosmologies, our world views, are nothing else but the history of our hearts.’* As we develop spiritually, our intellect no longer remains separated, exiled in the brain. Mind and heart are united in a re-integrated person.
The heart is cleansed and awakened by grace and by life according to the Gospel; that is why so many of our contemporaries are only aware of the heart’s physical functions. Sometimes they acknowledge also its emotional facet – though in the case of the emotions many consider the term ‘heart’ to be symbolic or metaphorical. Those who follow a Christian path will discover that the heart is the meeting place between the real ‘I’, the human hypostasis, and the living God. The pure in heart see God there. Knowledge of Him originates there. The cultivation of the heart is a task beyond any secular educational system. Intellectual ability is now deemed the criterion of knowledge. Because we are spiritually frozen we do not recognize a thought until it has taken a cerebral form. In reality, moral and spiritual judgments are decided in the heart.
Child to a spiritual father: ‘What shall I do about [personal problem]?’ Elder: ‘I think you should decide about that yourself’. Child: ‘But I can’t’ Elder: ‘That’s because you tried to decide here [hand on forehead] rather than here [hand on heart].’
Obviously this was a personal answer. But the fact that it was given to a child is significant. It also shows us that in Christian life, deciding by the heart does not mean being guided by the emotions rather than by reason. Neither does it mean that feelings are superior to thinking. Nor do we deny the value of reasoning. Deciding by our heart means opening the core of one’s being to God’s enlightenment, and letting the effect of that prayer colour our decision-making.
In the spiritual education of children, our first concern is not to train their wills, but to attract grace – by our life and prayer – to their environment, and to let each child’s heart become attached to grace. Theological discussion with children is a very small proportion of Christian education. Prayer that God will touch them with grace is a permanent dimension of all our dealings with children, even when they are not with us.
Protopresbyter George Metallinos, recalling the holy Elder Porphyrios: ‘He told me that I must deal with one of my children by praying a lot more. He specifically said to me about that child, “Whatever you would say to that child […], say it to God. Kneel before God and through the grace of God, your words will be conveyed to your child.” About my other child, he said to me: “[…] He listens, but he easily forgets. Therefore, again you will kneel and you will ask for God’s grace, so that your fatherly words will fall upon good soil and will be able to bear fruit.”**
*Fr. Theokletos Dionysiatis, “Between Heaven and Earth [in Greek], (Athens, 1955), p. 130.
**Klitos Ionnidis, “Elder Porphyrios, Testimonies and Experiences,” (Athens: Convent of the Transfiguration, 1997), p. 77.
Sunday, May 15, 2005
“Spiritual Illumination vs. Intellectual Learning” – an excerpt from the writings of Blessed Elder Paisios the Athonite
“…The fathers of those days had great faith and simplicity. Although most of them were basically illiterate, they, nevertheless, received constant divine enlightenment because of their humility and zeal for spiritual combat. While, in our own days, knowledge has increased, unfortunately, logic has shaken people’s faith from the foundations and filled their souls with questions and doubts. So, it is only natural that we should be deprived of miracles, because miracles are experienced and cannot be explained by logic…”
“…How could anyone have known that in a few years most people would become deformed by too much education – since they are being taught in the spirit of atheism and not in that of God, which can sanctify external education, too – and faintheartedness will reach such a point that miracles will be considered fairy-stories from bygone days? Naturally, when the doctor is an atheist, however many tests he performs on a saint with his scientific equipment (X-rays and so on), he will not be able to discern the grace of God. Whereas if he, too, has holiness in him, he will see divine grace radiating…”
“…A great evil is it when we theologise cold-heartedly with our mind, passing off our mind for the Holy Spirit. This is called “encephalogy” [theology of the brain], which gives birth to Babel (confusion). In theology, however, there are many tongues (many gifts), but all tongues are in agreement because they have one Master, the Holy Spirit of the Pentecost, and the tongues are of fire…He, who disregards divine enlightenment, gives primacy to the mind and creates an impressive sermon with beautiful wording, is related to the Arians who believed that Christ is a creature of God…We, the Orthodox, believe and confess that the Word of God was not created, but was born “of the Father before all ages” and was incarnate “of the Holy Spirit” and the Virgin Mary and brought salvation to the world….The word of the mind does not bring change to souls, for it is flesh. The word of God that is born of the Holy Spirit has divine energy and changes souls…”
~ Blessed Elder Paisios the Athonite (+1994)
Glory to Thee, Lord
What shall I give Thee, Lord, in return for all Thy kindness?
Glory to Thee for Thy love.
Glory to Thee for Thy mercy.
Glory to Thee for Thy patience.
Glory to Thee for forgiving us all our sins.
Glory to Thee for coming to save our souls.
Glory to Thee for Thine incarnation in the Virgin’s womb.
Glory to Thee for Thy bonds.
Glory to Thee for receiving the cut of the lash.
Glory to Thee for accepting mockery.
Glory to Thee for Thy crucifixion.
Glory to Thee for Thy burial.
Glory to Thee for Thy resurrection.
Glory to Thee who were preached to men and women.
Glory to Thee in whom they believed.
Glory to Thee who were taken up into Heaven.
Glory to Thee who sit in great glory at the Father’s right hand.
Glory to Thee whose will it is that the sinner should be saved
through Thy great mercy and compassion.
St Ephrem the Syrian (+373 A.D.)
Comments (4)
I liked your parenting blog. And I don’t know if you are still at the shed, but someone was asking where you had been the last couple days or so… In case you wanted to know.
I miss her too :( I wish she would have remained here at least.
Praise the Lord there is someone else who will admit that “The apostles themselves, emphasized the necessity of separating from the Church, those who continue to follow heretical teachings and/or continue gross immoral behaviour without repentance.”
This matter has me wondering if the AP mindset might be responsible for Christians who choose to cover their ears and “lalala” when it comes to this.
I am AP and a gentle mom. I doubt I will ever change that. However, I will not ignore what the Lord has taught us through his apostles just because it is uncomfortable. Extending “grace” farther than what the Lord has said, IS NOT LOVE. It is rejecting God’s way. It is saying “I know better than you” (the oldest sin in Creation).
I know this is slightly off the specific topic, but she makes excellent points for the general topic also. I think the main point is we cannot pick and choose scripture. We can’t say, “I like this, but I’m going to ignore that.”
We operate in grace according to the Word and we cannot ignore the fact that God says there are times when firmer measures are to be taken. It’s there, like it or not. I never thought of it in connection with parenting before Lizabeth’s comments. She is right.
Thanks for the link. I have much admiration for Lizabeth and her maturity in the Lord. I’ve always admired her priorities and her conviction to not be conformed to the things of this world. When we reach Heaven we will finally realize that “fighting” for our “right” to conform is so not worth it.
I think it’s important to separate the concept of AP from the opinions of those who practice it. I, personally do not like the attitude that God is so graceful that no one is really going to ever find the end of His patience, however I do not think that the AP mindset has anything to do with this at all. AP is a parenting philosophy based on building firm and strong bonds with our children. GD is something very popular with those who agree with the philosophy of AP, but it is not something that defines AP. One’s view of God and grace has little to do with the validity of AP or GD, which is a decision that one must make for themselves and their families. Having been on both sides of the fence and back again I can say with confidence that the proof is indeed in the pudding, and this pudding is much better tasting than the other.
God deals with us all on our levels of understanding, intelligence and abilities. He expects nothing of us that we cannot do and even then He helps us to do as He commands. Yet, He is firm and just. We are human and imperfect even in our best moments and cannot ever hope to live up to that, but I say we try. I apply nothing more in principal to my children than I would to any other person and I seek to deal with my children as God deals with me. I will never be as good to them as God has been to me, but I try, I fail and then I pray for help and try again.